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C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
They've been prepping Ham to be fired since the day he's been fired.

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Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
I had planned to find images of players fishing but it's getting harder to do that every year. So here is a representive from each team somehow involved in water.



Reaves golfing



Apparently Booker is somewhere in this picture



Could not find any pelicans on a boat.

Well this was a giant waste of time. The smart thing to do would be to hit ctrl+a then backspace or just browse away from the page but I've done all this so might as well hit "Submit Reply"

hifi
Jul 25, 2012

Its easy. Just found this one

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


xbilkis posted:

That's gotta be a record turnaround time on the Coach Dead; What Went Wrong postmortem

Nah, the Vogel hit piece by Shams came out literally minutes after the end of Game 4 yesterday.

toggle
Nov 7, 2005

Those halcyon championship days of 2020 are long gone.

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005
There it is. https://theathletic.com/5453498/2024/04/30/lakers-lebron-darvin-ham-future-offseason-plan/

quote:

Four of the five starting spots were cemented: Russell, Reaves, James and Davis. The fifth spot was going to be decided in training camp, with Vanderbilt, the incumbent starter entering the 2023 postseason, the front-runner to retain his starting spot. But things went awry when Vanderbilt suffered a heel injury during the first preseason game.

That led to Ham and the coaching staff starting Prince, who had been signed to a one-year, $4.5 million contract as a 3-and-D wing and was viewed as the likely eighth or ninth man. Prince inadvertently became the avatar for the Lakers’ issues, as his outsized role often came at the expense of the core players and led to smaller lineups, which performed worse statistically. The Lakers were just 24-25 with Prince as a starter and 28-8 in the 36 games he played fewer than 25 minutes (he missed four games due to injury). He finished last on the team in plus-minus in the regular season.

There was a sense among people within the organization that Prince and Reddish — a 24-year-old minimum contract signing — were given opportunities to fail and play through their mistakes during the regular season, a luxury that Reaves, Russell, Hachimura and others weren’t afforded.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



xbilkis posted:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1785179872308105633

That's gotta be a record turnaround time on the Coach Dead; What Went Wrong postmortem

Shams been busy writing the hit pieces to go out as soon as a team gets eliminated

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
There are so many things to point at that Ham did wrong but really the Prince thing I maintain was done out of necessity rather than preference. As healthy as LeBron and AD were this season overall, their reserves were constantly injured. You aren't ever going to play Rui at the 2 and you probably don't want to play him at the 3 against 3/4 of the teams in the league, you're pretty much stuck playing Prince there, especially since the Lakers didn't have a backup PG until February which meant that Reaves and Russell were staggering minutes at the 1. When they signed Dinwiddie the Lakers were able to play Reaves at the 3 more and Prince played about what his role should have been.

toggle
Nov 7, 2005

Reddish had a stretch for about 3 weeks where he was fantastic. Then he returned back to the Cam we all know and love.

Max Christie was fairly decent with the small amount of time he got. Not too bad of a defender (at times). Bad hair though. And moustache.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

Acguy Supremacy

Rick posted:

I had planned to find images of players fishing but it's getting harder to do that every year. So here is a representive from each team somehow involved in water.



Reaves golfing



Apparently Booker is somewhere in this picture



Could not find any pelicans on a boat.

Well this was a giant waste of time. The smart thing to do would be to hit ctrl+a then backspace or just browse away from the page but I've done all this so might as well hit "Submit Reply"

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming
https://x.com/nytimes/status/1785278061581078961?s=46

I don’t know if the odds of him lasting to 55 are good or bad

Bismack Billabongo
Oct 9, 2012

New Love Glow
Talent wise that seems like an ok ballpark for him. Just depends on if somebody else wants to try and lure daddy

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Rick posted:

There are so many things to point at that Ham did wrong but really the Prince thing I maintain was done out of necessity rather than preference. As healthy as LeBron and AD were this season overall, their reserves were constantly injured. You aren't ever going to play Rui at the 2 and you probably don't want to play him at the 3 against 3/4 of the teams in the league, you're pretty much stuck playing Prince there, especially since the Lakers didn't have a backup PG until February which meant that Reaves and Russell were staggering minutes at the 1. When they signed Dinwiddie the Lakers were able to play Reaves at the 3 more and Prince played about what his role should have been.

Dinwiddie was such a great pickup but they don't really have a way to keep him, unless they can figure out a way to get a full MLE and even then I am not sure that gets him. I agree I don't think giving a few of Prince's minutes to Rui would have made a big difference, but if they had another playmakers like Dinwiddie all year it might have given a few more Ws to get a better matchup, maybe. Even 3 wins is a lot.

West is going to be brutal again next year.

3 DONG HORSE
May 22, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


toggle posted:

Those halcyon championship days of 2020 are long gone.

Such a great and wonderful time in our history. Forever to be cherished.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

morestuff posted:

https://x.com/nytimes/status/1785278061581078961?s=46

I don’t know if the odds of him lasting to 55 are good or bad

I'd say the odds of him being there four years from now, when he should be considering any kind of pro career, are more than good.

Ghost Dog
Aug 17, 2016

Rick posted:

There are so many things to point at that Ham did wrong but really the Prince thing I maintain was done out of necessity rather than preference. As healthy as LeBron and AD were this season overall, their reserves were constantly injured. You aren't ever going to play Rui at the 2 and you probably don't want to play him at the 3 against 3/4 of the teams in the league, you're pretty much stuck playing Prince there, especially since the Lakers didn't have a backup PG until February which meant that Reaves and Russell were staggering minutes at the 1. When they signed Dinwiddie the Lakers were able to play Reaves at the 3 more and Prince played about what his role should have been.

taurean prince is annoying cause he is perfectly shaped like the answer to what they need but is simply not that. they need a wing who can defend up positions and rebound while shooting at a decent clip, but prince plays like hes 5'8.



the fact that lebron cant really be a PF anymore on defense is an argument for having a reliable double big lineup that you go to frequently, even if you don't start or finish with the group. either that or you need a pretty special type of wing player that is just simply never available.

Chronicles
Oct 24, 2013

I've been going over trade scenarios to "save" the suns, is there any team right now that would even want Beal, provided he agreed to the trade?

Orlando maybe?

snyprmag
Oct 9, 2005

Try and talk Atlanta into swapping one of their two point guards for a shooting guard?

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



beal's contract is so enormous i don't think any team would want him

Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Apr 30, 2024

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Prince's best us is as a guy you use to plug in when a starter goes down so you don't screw up your rotations. Trying to rely on him to actually give you an edge is a fools errand.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Chronicles posted:

I've been going over trade scenarios to "save" the suns, is there any team right now that would even want Beal, provided he agreed to the trade?

Orlando maybe?

No, not without additional assets the Suns don't have.

Ghost Dog
Aug 17, 2016

Lockback posted:

Prince's best us is as a guy you use to plug in when a starter goes down so you don't screw up your rotations. Trying to rely on him to actually give you an edge is a fools errand.

yeah i hated him this season but if you have a well rounded unit that already knows how to play defense and rebound hes a dude who wont tank it and shoots well, thats a very valuable guy on the right team. that team is not a lakers team who has between 1-2 people who are interested in playing this thing called "defense"

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Ghost Dog posted:

taurean prince is annoying cause he is perfectly shaped like the answer to what they need but is simply not that. they need a wing who can defend up positions and rebound while shooting at a decent clip, but prince plays like hes 5'8.



the fact that lebron cant really be a PF anymore on defense is an argument for having a reliable double big lineup that you go to frequently, even if you don't start or finish with the group. either that or you need a pretty special type of wing player that is just simply never available.

I think you are right about double bigs, it’s just gotten harder to do it as the quality drop off after the top 30 bigs falls off really hard.

Lockback posted:

Dinwiddie was such a great pickup but they don't really have a way to keep him, unless they can figure out a way to get a full MLE and even then I am not sure that gets him. I agree I don't think giving a few of Prince's minutes to Rui would have made a big difference, but if they had another playmakers like Dinwiddie all year it might have given a few more Ws to get a better matchup, maybe. Even 3 wins is a lot.

West is going to be brutal again next year.

He was good defensively and maybe with another season could be more comfortable on offense. They are basically over the apron by 700 K so it wouldn’t take much.

Ghost Dog
Aug 17, 2016

Rick posted:

I think you are right about double bigs, it’s just gotten harder to do it as the quality drop off after the top 30 bigs falls off really hard.

He was good defensively and maybe with another season could be more comfortable on offense. They are basically over the apron by 700 K so it wouldn’t take much.

yeah i dont know that there was someone there i just know the guys on the roster aren't really it. altho based on my Eye Test wood and hayes played perfectly fine with AD, the problem was they were usually complete rear end once he was off the court which i guess was also true for every other laker except maybe lebron

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
I would have liked to see Woods and AD play together more for sure. That was the best their defense ever looked which is weird to say about Christian Wood and also he probably would have got bored of defense in a week had he not got hurt first but still the potential looked to be there.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

Acguy Supremacy
someone on another forum asked me to expand on my thoughts about willie green, so here they are:

willie green isn't a bad coach and he isn't a great coach. he was perfect for this particular team at the moment he was hired but i think the team needs to move on from him for the next step.

he doesn't give much of a gently caress about offense. look at those names you mentioned about him developing [herb and dyson]. they are both defense first guys. same with jose and naji. they all get a lot longer leash than trey and hawkins do. he scrapped the borrego-influenced offense at the beginning of the season because ingram didn't like playing in it and ingram is his guy.

which leads to another problem. relying on nance to solve every problem. nance is his guy and plays better defense than jonas so willie will play nance an inordinate number of minutes some games despite jonas being a consistent source of offense on a team that needs that juice in the half-court without zion.

hawkins was absolutely missing defensive rotations early in the year. but he never got any more run after the first month or so and didn't get sent down to the g-league often so he never got any real game experience with making rotations. this meant by the time the playoffs rolled around and the team could have really used his shooting gravity to open things up for others, he wasn't playable.

also, herb, naji, jose, and trey got a lot of development time because they were clearly better than the other guys on the bench. dyson didn't get as much this year after guys returned from injury and hawkins hasn't proven himself better than those guys, either. willie plays to win the game that is being played today when it comes to his rotations and lineups.

with all that said, willie is incredible at getting a quality defense out of lineups with only a single good defender. and his players play hard for him and he doesn't appear to be an rear end in a top hat or a bad person.

Kibner fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Apr 30, 2024

Chronicles
Oct 24, 2013

Lockback posted:

No, not without additional assets the Suns don't have.

Oh yeah I was imagining a KD trade where they use some of the gained picks to ship Beal out

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming
If you’re trading KD you’re way better off just sitting out Beal’s deal

Mean Baby
May 28, 2005

https://x.com/WardeIICurry30/status/1785164402808762650?t=Q6uclWd_0mFzwJgWSp7wlg&s=01

Redgrendel2001
Sep 1, 2006

you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1785676203963392427

Lifespan
Mar 5, 2002
I'll admit I didn't read the paper, but couldn't that 8.5% swing just be home court advantage?

Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

Lifespan posted:

I'll admit I didn't read the paper, but couldn't that 8.5% swing just be home court advantage?

Or that for my entire lifetime basically the east has been extremely top heavy while the West has had a bunch of good franchises

Aye Doc
Jul 19, 2007



Lifespan posted:

I'll admit I didn't read the paper, but couldn't that 8.5% swing just be home court advantage?

both sets of data the tweet is looking at are teams with home court advantage
PDT @ home, hosting EDT team
EDT @ home, hosting PDT team

Mean Baby
May 28, 2005

At a glance it sounds like cope for the east being trash since MJ retired.

Lifespan
Mar 5, 2002

Aye Doc posted:

both sets of data the tweet is looking at are teams with home court advantage
PDT @ home, hosting EDT team
EDT @ home, hosting PDT team

Ah, I see it's just oddly worded. Shouldn't this instead be comparing a team's away games in the same time zone vs away with a 3 hour time difference? Just seems like a worthless data point.

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

Lifespan posted:

Ah, I see it's just oddly worded. Shouldn't this instead be comparing a team's away games in the same time zone vs away with a 3 hour time difference? Just seems like a worthless data point.

it does

quote:

To examine the CR phase shift effect on team performance, teams were divided into three groups: 1) teams with the same internal UTC as the local UTC (LS), 2) teams with the internal UTC ahead of the local UTC (LA), and 3) teams with the internal UTC behind the local UTC (LB).

Porfiriato
Jan 4, 2016


This just anecdotal and would be a much smaller data set, but it feels to me like west coast teams playing a weekend or holiday day/afternoon game in CDT/EDT often perform worse than expected. Like the mirror image of eastern teams being tired playing a late game out west.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Welcome Miami Heat. You were an NBA basketball team this season.

nachos
Jun 27, 2004

Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Well that was a slow miserable death march of a season after missing out on lillard. That said, Miami would be in an even worse position paying dame 60+ million for the next handful of years and no assets to speak of. Either way they are kind of hosed. The jimmy butler era was a good one though.

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Aye Doc
Jul 19, 2007



pre-emptively feel bad for whichever team gets caleb martin once he falls away from heat magic and he's just throwing himself around the court like a moron for 23 minutes a night while going 1 of 9 from the field with a rebound and 3 turnovers

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