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socialsecurity posted:Like what are they banning people for that they shouldn't be? Yeah I should've included that. I've seen moderators posting chat logs of someone saying "diffed". If you curse AT ALL, that's enough too. Doesn't even have to be directed at anyone.
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May 2, 2024 18:46
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Being told by a few buddies that they released possibly the worst dev update post in the history of the game just now, let's see https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24072110/director-s-take-empowering-tanks-in-midseason/ quote:So, our midseason update is going to help balance how many hits tanks can take to stay in the fight better. First, we’re specifically buffing the Tank passive to have a 25% damage reduction from headshots, which should help cut down on being burst down in a fight. We’re also increasing the knockback resistance for tanks from 30% to 50%, which should allow them to hold the front line a lot more and not feel as subjected to displacement abilities. ... Does anyone ITT remember when the game used to have 2 tanks per team?
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May 2, 2024 19:25
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They're just gonna do that thing where they'll start buffing tanks until everyone is pissed that a match is decided by tanks alone.
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May 2, 2024 19:43
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BabyRyoga posted:
Good times, good times.
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May 2, 2024 19:46
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I'm looking forward to finding out how long it will take for these morons to figure out that all the big designs decisions in OW1 had a specific reason for why there were chosen in the first place, and give up and revert all the idiotic OW2 changes.
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May 2, 2024 19:56
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Jack Trades posted:I'm looking forward to finding out how long it will take for these morons to figure out that all the big designs decisions in OW1 had a specific reason for why there were chosen in the first place, and give up and revert all the idiotic OW2 changes. I don't know if it will ever happen, man. The ego ain't coming down across any of these games. All the individuals who actually would be deserving of the ego either retired, moved on to other things, or turned out to be horrible people that needed to disappear. The closest we are gonna get to a dev blog with the title is "We Were Wrong" is getting "We Hear You", in the same way a mental health professional listening to the concerns of a patient might assuring them that they are being heard, but failing to convince them that they are actually being listened to. It is rather frustrating. I've really hated this iteration of OW ever since the relaunch, and it has been sliding further downhill somehow. However, I would reluctantly concede that s9 was actually a bit of an uptick for me. Hearing about the changes initially with hitboxes, health, dps passive etc, they seemed like the usual nonsensical stop-gap measures to problem that just grows worse and worse -- for the record they WERE exactly that, however at least in that case the season felt fresh. The damage role felt fun to play again, and tanks didn't feel nearly as oppressive. Supports generally felt the same, however a lot of players were complaining that they felt terrible to play because they were essentially completely bonkers in power level from season 2 all the way to 8, and got put in their place a little because of the passive. The game still suffered from a lot of the major problems it had before, but it felt at least a little better. If tanks get oppressive again, it will just be repeating a cycle.
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May 2, 2024 20:16
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I think the game is more fun with raidboss tanks. Damage class should have to work the hardest to make an impact IMO. If you want to be a ninja, you should be doing big brain backline plays. Tank should have the durability bend the whole direction of the fight.
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May 2, 2024 23:42
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The problem is, if there is only one tank and tanks are strong, DPS will just ignore tanks and go after supports. Then, being support will be miserable so they'll need to overbuff them again and then tanks and DPS will cry. The cycle will continue forever.
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May 3, 2024 04:13
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I'll tell you one thing, if I ever made a hero/class FPS there is 0% chance that I'd include tanks
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May 3, 2024 04:24
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LazyMaybe posted:I'll tell you one thing, if I ever made a hero/class FPS there is 0% chance that I'd include tanks They were fine in OW1. The only problem that arose with the role specifically is when they added multiple tanks that had shield abilities, which they never should have done. If Orisa's rework would have been the original concept and Sigma were a little different, we might be in a different timeline. If the double shield meta never happened, they couldn't use it as a lame excuse to try and rebrand OW as OW2 with 5v5 being essentially the only actual significant change.
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May 3, 2024 04:41
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Don't forget PVE!
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May 3, 2024 05:34
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they should have just deleted reinhardt from the game
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May 3, 2024 06:23
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now theyve basically invented a meta where all the fun tanks feel impossible to play so youre basically forced to play the boring shield wall tanks. like wrecking ball and roadhog are still good but even if they are 'good' they feel like crap compared to the other team just having a giant fuckoff barrier 24/7.
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May 3, 2024 06:23
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Reaper must be even deeper in the dumpster. Like needs a rework bad.
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May 3, 2024 12:48
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Endorph posted:now theyve basically invented a meta where all the fun tanks feel impossible to play so youre basically forced to play the boring shield wall tanks. like wrecking ball and roadhog are still good but even if they are 'good' they feel like crap compared to the other team just having a giant fuckoff barrier 24/7. Yeah, hog feels like a wet bag these days. You hook someone and they just melt your face instead of panicking and trying to run.
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May 3, 2024 17:53
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Could they have kept 2 tanks if they gave shields a pool of health that was shared among the team's shield tanks? Total pool is, I dunno, health of a Rein shield * 1.5? Then if you had an old Orisa (or whatever nowadays) + Rein shield the pool would be divided by 2? More places a shield could be, but they'd be easier to shoot through individually. (Assuming the 2 tank issue was purely a shields issue)
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May 3, 2024 18:17
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Going to 6v6 is as many if not more problems with balance, as staying in 5v5. Like, tanks would need a complete overhaul to be viable today if we go to 6v6. Even in open queue where they have less health, they're not great there either, until you hit some GOATS comp. Which is ALSO not what we're trying to go for right?
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May 3, 2024 18:19
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I mean, they didn’t rehaul enough to go to 5v5 and that’s why they are stuck redoing characters every other season.
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May 3, 2024 18:48
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I'm a gold tank so like I get my experience is not representative but if you can't get value as wrecking ball right now below diamond lobbies you need to pick up at least one dive tank. I'm not a Winston guy at all but dive tanks+bare minimum comms are so brainless right now I love it. Even if you just want a non dive option mauga feels great. This meta absolutely is the best meta for tank players since OW2 launched imo. My main issue is that the supports that have the most fun playstyles feel weak. Ana feels awful BC of mobility creep and zen is too aim dependent for me but tank players should be very happy ATM.
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May 3, 2024 19:00
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I was born a rein main so I pick him a lot and he's good but tbh I feel like the shield playstyles should always have a drop off at higher tiers and sigma being simply playable and not Meta feels incredible to me
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May 3, 2024 19:02
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Rawrbomb posted:Going to 6v6 is as many if not more problems with balance, as staying in 5v5. Like, tanks would need a complete overhaul to be viable today if we go to 6v6. Even in open queue where they have less health, they're not great there either, until you hit some GOATS comp. Which is ALSO not what we're trying to go for right? I at least enjoyed watching pro-level GOATS. Seeing who made the first mistake before it all went downhill was fun. Wasn't doing comp at the time so can't say how that would've performed in game. Though, I fully acknowledge being an outlier who enjoys playing tanks and had someone to duo with. We usually ended up Winston/Dva, [Sigma,Orisa]/[Zar,Dva]
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May 3, 2024 19:03
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Sloppy posted:Yeah, hog feels like a wet bag these days. You hook someone and they just melt your face instead of panicking and trying to run. Well, if it's any consolation, hog is potentially gonna be "the problem" going into this proposed update, or at least in a better place. His kryptonite in a lot of matchups tends to be headshots due to his large health pool and self heal/dmg reduction. He's just never gonna die. Rawrbomb posted:Going to 6v6 is as many if not more problems with balance, as staying in 5v5. Like, tanks would need a complete overhaul to be viable today if we go to 6v6. Even in open queue where they have less health, they're not great there either, until you hit some GOATS comp. Which is ALSO not what we're trying to go for right? No it isn't. As far as the tanks went, it had the problem of stacking tanks with shields, and that was pretty much it. There were some problems with poorly designed supports like brig and bap being too powerful, but it was pretty balanced for the most part. Aside from that, the other problems that existed by the end of OW1's life were maps and modes being frustrating, and the devs stagnating and not releasing updates to focus on a project that more or less was never released. It would be much easier to return to 6v6 and adjust the tanks in a way that makes them similar to the way they used to play instead of constantly trying to bandaid the enshitification of the entire game's design by adding weird blanket passives for each role and completely reworking characters every season or two. edit: think of it this way -- in OW1 and 6v6 in general, any given character felt pretty much equal, regardless of which role you played; the roles were basically just labels that told you about the characters kits. It would be realistic to assume that any character in the game could feasibly win a 1 v 1 vs any other character, and have roughly the same overall contribution to the team. In OW2, role passives make that much harder to be true, and the "tank" role essentially makes it impossible. Even if they found some kind of magical balance that feels a lot more "stable" for a 5v5 type design and one tank having all the tools they need to make the game feel better, the same that was said about how OW1 felt "equal" could essentially NEVER be true, because the singular tank on any given team would always be more powerful, by definition of the role. That aspect isnt the end-all parameter to the game's balance, but it will always feel better when things are more equal. BabyRyoga fucked around with this message at 19:24 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 19:08
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Zet posted:I at least enjoyed watching pro-level GOATS. Seeing who made the first mistake before it all went downhill was fun. Wasn't doing comp at the time so can't say how that would've performed in game. I've always been a Zarya main, OW1/OW2 aside. The character just always felt the best when you played it with another tank and empowered that tank by making space with bubbles, or taking turns pushing forward a little and backing. It was definitely better if you queued with someone, but even if you weren't exactly on the same page, it was preferable to the OW2 style of playing Zarya where you are more incentivized to find openings where you can try to be a little bit more selfish and use bubbles to charge your energy, then look for an opening or off angle to get a kill.
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May 3, 2024 19:42
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BabyRyoga posted:Well, if it's any consolation, hog is potentially gonna be "the problem" going into this proposed update, or at least in a better place. His kryptonite in a lot of matchups tends to be headshots due to his large health pool and self heal/dmg reduction. He's just never gonna die. Idk, he's gonna really feel the extra 5% healing reduction a lot more than most of the other tanks, and the headshot damage change isn't as significant for him compared to, say, Zarya. Plus he's not going to benefit from the armor change so pellet and rapid fire heroes are going to still easily farm ult charge off him.
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May 3, 2024 19:44
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Zarya is kinda the biggest success story of 5v5 tank reworks imo. It seems impossible to make her weak and while she hasn't been dominant in 5v5 she's always seemed like a safe pick regardless of map type. I never play her much but picking her up into a favourable matchup is super easy without feeling braonless
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May 3, 2024 19:46
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:Zarya is kinda the biggest success story of 5v5 tank reworks imo. It seems impossible to make her weak and while she hasn't been dominant in 5v5 she's always seemed like a safe pick regardless of map type. I never play her much but picking her up into a favourable matchup is super easy without feeling braonless My experience has been very feast or famine with her. I've had games where I essentially just completely poo poo on an enemy team to the point where I get called a smurf and end a map with like a 3:1 damage ratio of any other player in the game. I've also had games where I just can't do anything at all; my supports can't keep me up even if I play less aggressive, I can't take any space, and no one on the team makes any room for anything to happen. I think she is the perfect example of a hero where the other players on your team need to read into your actions more often and more accurately. The supports need to know exactly how much healing you are gonna need, the DPS need to know when you are gonna play aggressively so that they can play more aggressively. One of the big problems she has is that it's hard for a lot of players to read into these things, often not to their own faults. If I had a dime for every time a LW disrupted me with grip and lost us the fight during a play where I had one or both bubbles up, i'd be able to put a dent in my Steam wishlist. Sometimes it's very obvious that I don't need to be gripped, like if for example I am intentionally standing in a D.va bomb to get free energy and burn the D.va before they can re-mech, but other times it isn't so cut and dry. Since the whole idea of playing selfishly revolves around baiting one or more players on the enemy team into thinking they can apply pressure even though you have one or two bubbles worth of security, you bait your own team sometimes too if you don't explicitly communicate this to them or they read incorrectly. In 6v6, she didn't really need to play selfishly, and having only one bubble wouldn't lead to so many baity type scenarios. In 5v5, I feel like she is always going to be either OP to the point where she is oppressive in metal ranks (like in Season 1), or very mid, if not underwhelming. The other only character i've ever been called a smurf on a few times is Sym for the record, and not since OW1. I've kinda retired her at this point, but maybe the armor changes will be a slight buff for her. Beams might be on the rise, again. BabyRyoga fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 20:27
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BabyRyoga posted:I've always been a Zarya main, OW1/OW2 aside. The character just always felt the best when you played it with another tank and empowered that tank by making space with bubbles, or taking turns pushing forward a little and backing. It was definitely better if you queued with someone, but even if you weren't exactly on the same page, it was preferable to the OW2 style of playing Zarya where you are more incentivized to find openings where you can try to be a little bit more selfish and use bubbles to charge your energy, then look for an opening or off angle to get a kill. This, there was a special bond between a tank and their offtank, they worked well together they each understood what the other was doing. Now it feels like the singular tank is just a target to soak up all the blame for the team.
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May 3, 2024 20:37
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As unpopular as it would be, they need to remove 1 of the supports if they really want to balance the game as the amount of healing is just too high in the game overall but I realize I’m probably the minority on this issue as people like playing double support.
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May 3, 2024 20:52
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They've been making every role into DPS anyway. Just skip to the part where they remove all the tanks and supports.
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May 3, 2024 20:56
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Lord Packinham posted:As unpopular as it would be, they need to remove 1 of the supports if they really want to balance the game as the amount of healing is just too high in the game overall but I realize I’m probably the minority on this issue as people like playing double support. It's not the healing itself that is the problem, though. It's abilities that offer hard denial. Stuff like Bap's lamp, Kiri's suzu, etc. This is one of the reasons why the DPS passive is an imperfect answer to fights lasting too long. Sure, players can get overwhelmed and eventually die as a result of receiving less healing, but when you just pop an immortality on them, it usually ends up saving them in the end rather than just prolonging death. Now you have an entire hero, LW, that is essentially a character the revolves almost entirely around denial. The character is really the first hero in the game that was built completely around that idea, and we've had lots of discussions previously ITT about how it didn't really fit in the game. Months later, the numbers on the hero have been inflated so much that they've essentially FORCED the concept to work. In just my last post, I was venting about grip being frustrating because of how counter-intuitive it is to a lot of the scenarios the game might present you with, and that it can be used to grief your team essentially. However, it's equally frustrating when used properly because it just completely denies the enemy team. It's a duality of frustration, TBH. I think the only type of denial that has even been properly implemented into the game is the mercy res in its current state; it is both risky to get off in a lot of situations (it puts Mercy in danger, it also reduces healing output temporarily) and has a very long CD.
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May 3, 2024 21:14
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BabyRyoga posted:It's not the healing itself that is the problem, though. It's abilities that offer hard denial. Stuff like Bap's lamp, Kiri's suzu, etc. This is one of the reasons why the DPS passive is an imperfect answer to fights lasting too long. Sure, players can get overwhelmed and eventually die as a result of receiving less healing, but when you just pop an immortality on them, it usually ends up saving them in the end rather than just prolonging death. I agree, you made my point better than I did.
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May 3, 2024 21:17
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A game without special abilities and flying hamster balls and stuns and healing is not the game i want to play.
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May 3, 2024 21:24
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headcase posted:A game without special abilities and flying hamster balls and stuns and healing is not the game i want to play. But where else would you get the experience of teams of 5 guys with guns trying to shoot each other in the head to insta kill each other.
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May 3, 2024 21:28
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headcase posted:A game without special abilities and flying hamster balls and stuns and healing is not the game i want to play. If you can’t see that Blizzard is slowly trying to make OW CoD but colorful idk what to tell ya.
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May 3, 2024 21:36
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Lord Packinham posted:I agree, you made my point better than I did. Don't nuke a support though, just nuke the denial abilities. Maybe you could double or even triple the duration of suzu but make it so instead of phasing a character out to offensive abilities, they still get hit and take all the damage at once after the ability wears off. Clense stays, and any healing the target gets while effected can provide temp overhealth. You could also do a similar thing with lamp, where it will prevent death while it is active but not deny the consequences of taking hits while standing in it, once it breaks. Get rid of grip completely IMO, maybe give LW some kind of ability that is like a Zarya bubble with some other gimmick to it.
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May 3, 2024 21:53
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they should've just kept 5v5, added more tanks and support, and made certain classes good at taking down shields ez pz
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May 4, 2024 04:18
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dopesilly posted:they should've just kept 5v5, added more tanks and support, and made certain classes good at taking down shields I'm sure you meant 6v6, but i completely agree. More direct shield counters.
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May 5, 2024 03:40
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A shield eater character would have solved that.
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May 5, 2024 04:12
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Tuxedo Gin posted:A shield eater character would have solved that. considering their balance solution to the predominance of dive comps was to put brigitte in the game, it's perhaps better that they didn't
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May 5, 2024 04:21
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Vermain posted:considering their balance solution to the predominance of dive comps was to put brigitte in the game, it's perhaps better that they didn't Well yeah. None of Overwatch's problems are realistically fixable because Blizzard is terrible at balance.
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May 5, 2024 04:27
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