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Count Thrashula posted:Please, Toho, please, I just want to give you money for English subtitles.  I was unable to convince my father-in-law to see G-1 in theaters, but I can 1000% get him on board with a blu ray. If I could get the drat blu ray!
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May 4, 2024 16:01
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| # ? May 19, 2024 02:42 |
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Oh, so that's why this film wasn't released theatrically in China. I don't think a film about how the Japanese soldiers were the real victims of WW2 would play well here. I don't want to bring this thread down because it's a positive space and we all love Godzilla, but I hate this loving movie
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May 4, 2024 17:33
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I mean if that's your takeaway. I viewed it as a country getting smashed to pieces repeatedly until they finally learn how to move on and be better than they were during the war. So much of the characters suffering is brought about by their inability to move past the self-inflicted damage caused by their toxic wartime mindsets. What good does dying for your country do when it was in service of monstrous acts? What good does belittling a survivor do because they didn't embrace a death cult mentality?
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 4, 2024 |
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May 4, 2024 17:40
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Japan did a bunch of insanely evil poo poo in the war but I don’t think the film opposes or negates that. The story and lens is from a young kid who was literally trained to be a suicide pilot and cowered from this “ditto repeatedly against his government and his colleagues because of fear and self preservation. Like that in itself is pretty good and a good argument of how the government treated its soldiers. Even the rally at the end to prepare the plan was done from the point of view that the Japan government saw its soldiers as completely expendable and worthless and if they were to fight (and die) then it should be a fight to live. A lot of the moments and keys aspects of the movie are entirely reliant on just how loving lovely to government treated its troops (no ejection seats, etc). Yeah the war crimes were obviously not mentioned and the focus was entirely on the protagonist and the survivors of the war because that was the story it wanted to tell with Godzilla. Even then you can make the argument that Godzilla’s pure wrath against the Japanese could be fueled in part by that because he loving HATED everyone in the movie.
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May 4, 2024 17:45
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Yea and a lot of stories set during Reconstruction in America are about how sad it is the South was burned down and Johnny didn't come home, but there's an ideological bent to that poo poo too. Compare this to Kong: Skull Island where the veterans of a shameful, failed imperialist war find redemption in siding with the monster against the war machine. Minus One is more like those other Vietnam films, the Rambo 2s, about how they weren't allowed to win, how the politicians let them down. No discussion of what actually brought on the war. Hey here's a question: is this the only Japanese movie where Godzilla is straightforwardly destroyed by a military weapon? There's the oxygen destroyer but that's not meant to be a triumphant ending. Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 18:07 on May 4, 2024 |
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May 4, 2024 17:48
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Uhhh, he wasn't destroyed. He was regenerating by the end. Trauma isn't something that you deal with once and then it's over with. It's something that will always be there and you have to learn to live with it and deal with it when it arises. Just so, Godzilla not being fully destroyed by the flying bomb means that he will always be there as a reminder to the people.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 4, 2024 |
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May 4, 2024 17:49
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Mantis42 posted:Yea and a lot of stories set during Reconstruction in America are about how sad it is the South was burned down and Johnny didn't come home, but there's an ideological bent to that poo poo too. That’s a bad comparison. The Lost Cause narratives are always romanticizing a lost way of life. They are specifically about how sad it is that the society the south went to war to protect no longer exists. That’s completely different from the message of -1, which is very explicitly about how the militarism of Imperial Japan was bad. Even the way they band together in the end is a very explicit rejection of the authoritarian nationalism of Imperial Japan.
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May 4, 2024 21:32
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I finally got to see Minus One, and I really loved it a lot. The story is very good. I'm sad that I have not seen enough Godzilla movies, but this is the best one i've seen. Granted i've seen the American ones, so the bar is extremely low here, but Minus One surpasses all of those.
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May 4, 2024 23:41
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Minus One is basically that quote about how patriotism isn't about dying for your country, but about making the enemy's poor bastards die for theirs. That's why the ending is an extended metaphor for how repression and control don't work to defeat the Great Enemy That Must Be Destroyed, but also you shouldn't use suicide tactics to do so
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May 4, 2024 23:46
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The other thing that annoyed is how, for a film that apes so much of Spielberg, it employed little of his cinematic language to make Godzilla's appearance impactful or suspenseful. He just appears in the frame. They don't even bother to score him until halfway through the move. When he comes out of water he doesn't even make waves. This is the least awe inspiring Godzilla has ever been in a solo film. Less so than the 98 film, even.
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May 5, 2024 03:17
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I love Godzilla Minus One but it feels like part of the message is "The Imperial Japanese Army did nothing wrong and was only bad because it was failed by the weak Brass and cowardly politicians. Which is why a private Freikorps formed by strong and noble WW2 veterans is good and noble because only True patriots can combat a giant nuclear dinosaur without interference from the weak, globalist, and decadent state." So basically the same as every single American war movie except a lot less fascist.
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May 5, 2024 04:12
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Mantis42 posted:The other thing that annoyed is how, for a film that apes so much of Spielberg, it employed little of his cinematic language to make Godzilla's appearance impactful or suspenseful. He just appears in the frame. They don't even bother to score him until halfway through the move. When he comes out of water he doesn't even make waves. This is the least awe inspiring Godzilla has ever been in a solo film. Less so than the 98 film, even. He wasn’t Godzilla yet
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May 5, 2024 04:18
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FreudianSlippers posted:I love Godzilla Minus One but it feels like part of the message is "The Imperial Japanese Army did nothing wrong and was only bad because it was failed by the weak Brass and cowardly politicians. Which is why a private Freikorps formed by strong and noble WW2 veterans is good and noble because only True patriots can combat a giant nuclear dinosaur without interference from the weak, globalist, and decadent state." That seems like a wildly unfair reading. The stated criticism of the ruling class of Imperial Japan is not that it was "weak" or "cowardly" but that it literally demanded the death of it's people. I've seen people read the part at the end where private citizens and businesses work together independent from the government as right wing, and I don't mean to be rude but that reading only holds up if you have trouble seeing things from outside the context of modern American politics. This is a story about people who had been living under a fascist government. Individuals deciding what they want to do for the good of the nation on their own without government control is extremely different in that context. You're saying that its fascist for the movie to celebrate the people working together literally for the first time not under fascism. That's not good criticism. Gripweed fucked around with this message at 05:06 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 05:02
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Mantis42 posted:The other thing that annoyed is how, for a film that apes so much of Spielberg, it employed little of his cinematic language to make Godzilla's appearance impactful or suspenseful. He just appears in the frame. They don't even bother to score him until halfway through the move. When he comes out of water he doesn't even make waves. This is the least awe inspiring Godzilla has ever been in a solo film. Less so than the 98 film, even. lol
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May 5, 2024 06:52
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I knew there was a Minus-Color edition. I did not know there was apparently a Minus-Ginza edition. How do you watch that scene and say that Big G isn't awe-inspiring?
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May 5, 2024 06:57
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I mean I do agree though, the part where Godzilla turns to the camera and says "Toho Studios endorses any and all actions taken by the Japanese armed forces during World War 2" and gives a thumbs up was a bit much
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May 5, 2024 07:07
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Mantis42 posted:The other thing that annoyed is how, for a film that apes so much of Spielberg, it employed little of his cinematic language to make Godzilla's appearance impactful or suspenseful. He just appears in the frame. They don't even bother to score him until halfway through the move. When he comes out of water he doesn't even make waves. This is the least awe inspiring Godzilla has ever been in a solo film. Less so than the 98 film, even. This film appears to be reading you more than the other way around. Please watch Vs. King Ghidorah next, I'm super sure you'll love it! 
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May 5, 2024 08:19
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The Ginza sequence is the most memorable monster sequence because it's the only one that escalates with it's imagery and builds up to something, in comparison to the three or so sequences before it that where Godzilla is shot in just the most pedestrian manner possible, but it looks like a loving commercial that Godzilla showed up in. People are comparing this to Shin and 1954? It doesn't even compare to the Monsterverse movies.A Worrying Warlock posted:This film appears to be reading you more than the other way around. I've seen it a thousand times. I actually thought of it while watching Minus One a lot because it also references Spielberg and it's political theme has been read both ways by both it's detractors and it's admirers wrt it's stance on Japanese nationalism and it's relations with the rest of the world. It's a better movie than -1 Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 08:32 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 08:29
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Yikeszilla
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May 5, 2024 08:40
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Working my way through all the Zilla movies, just finished Ebirah Horror of the Deep, and it might be my new favorite after the original. I feel like they're really hitting a stride of how to balance the human and monster parts, and I actually got invested in the human story this time, for the first time since Mothra. 4 out of 5, on to Son of Godzilla
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May 5, 2024 16:16
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Mantis42 posted:The other thing that annoyed is how, for a film that apes so much of Spielberg, it employed little of his cinematic language to make Godzilla's appearance impactful or suspenseful. He just appears in the frame. They don't even bother to score him until halfway through the move. When he comes out of water he doesn't even make waves. This is the least awe inspiring Godzilla has ever been in a solo film. Less so than the 98 film, even. I mean just because they dont use his standard theme does not mean his scenes were scored without music
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May 5, 2024 16:30
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I have to agree the fishing boat/Takao sequence had no impact because Godzilla did not do a flying drop kick
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May 5, 2024 16:41
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ungulateman posted:Minus One is basically that quote about how patriotism isn't about dying for your country, but about making the enemy's poor bastards die for theirs. Couldn't disagree with this more. We never see a single one of "the poor bastards" and Godzilla doesn't even die. The thrust I got from the film is that patriotism isn't about dying for your country, it's about living for it, and helping others live. FreudianSlippers posted:I love Godzilla Minus One but it feels like part of the message is "The Imperial Japanese Army did nothing wrong and was only bad because it was failed by the weak Brass and cowardly politicians. Which is why a private Freikorps formed by strong and noble WW2 veterans is good and noble because only True patriots can combat a giant nuclear dinosaur without interference from the weak, globalist, and decadent state." "The army did nothing wrong, except for the part of the army that makes it an army" is an interesting take for sure. Care to point out any examples of a "globalist, decadent state" in the film?
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May 5, 2024 16:59
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Muscle Tracer posted:Care to point out any examples of a "globalist, decadent state" in the film? Closest I can gather to support that statement is that the USA isn't getting involved to help Japan because they're afraid of antagonizing the Soviets. This is of course following the USA losing a poo poo ton of warships and submarines during Godzilla's travel-by-map rampage. So it's less of decadence and more "we're already severely damaged by this monster and if we throw more ships into the fight we may not come out the other side intact.
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May 5, 2024 17:18
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I mean, at the end of the film we see Noriko is alive and relatively uninjured considering what she went through, but we also see that something ominous is moving underneath the skin on her neck. It's been confirmed that these are, in fact, Godzilla cells. We know that the force of the explosion would have AT LEAST put Noriko in the condition of near death but we also saw that in the aftermath there were scientists that were canvassing the area of the nuked Ginza district. I believe that is these scientists that found her in the rubble and took her in. We also know that they found Godzilla detritus in the rubble. So I believe that it's these scientists that tried to experiment with the cells (which we can surmise that were probably rapidly growing) to see if these cells could be used to heal people, and Noriko was the recipient of this experimentation. This would also mean to me that the scientists behind this would most likely be from Unit 731 since they had vast experience with human experimentation with horrific results. I don't think that Toho has the balls to actually say this, but yeah, the Imperial Japanese Government was another fascist government that had to be destroyed.
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May 5, 2024 17:27
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Here's a thought experiment: imagine this same story set in Germany. Where there's no mention of the Holocaust or Naziism, where the biggest criticism of the Nazi regime is "they didn't give us enough armor", where the protagonist regains his honor by driving a super Panzer to defeat an uncomplicated ontological evil that lets the Wehrmacht veterans replay their war service and win this time, and where you never see an occupying allied soldier.
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May 5, 2024 17:37
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No
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May 5, 2024 17:38
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Count Thrashula posted:Working my way through all the Zilla movies, just finished Ebirah Horror of the Deep, and it might be my new favorite after the original. I feel like they're really hitting a stride of how to balance the human and monster parts, and I actually got invested in the human story this time, for the first time since Mothra. 4 out of 5, on to Son of Godzilla I love that they made "I know! Let's wake up Godzilla!" a perfectly reasonable solution to the problem they're faced with.
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May 5, 2024 17:45
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[Mantis42 posted:Here's a thought experiment: imagine this same story set in Germany. Where there's no mention of the Holocaust or Naziism, where the biggest criticism of the Nazi regime is "they didn't give us enough armor", where the protagonist regains his honor by driving a super Panzer to defeat an uncomplicated ontological evil that lets the Wehrmacht veterans replay their war service and win this time, and where you never see an occupying allied soldier. Good point. If the movie was different from what it is, it would be bad. The movie doesn't show any occupying soldiers because it wants the misery of post-war Japan to be entirely the result of the actions of wartime Japan! It removes the idea of the misery being something done to them by a foreign power so it can solely be the fate they have brought on themselves. How are you trying to make that a bad thing?
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May 5, 2024 17:47
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Here's a thought experiment: imagine this same story set in Coruscant. Where there's no mention of the Clone Wars or the sith, where the biggest criticism of the Empire’s regime is "they didn't give us wookies", where the protagonist (disgraced senator Jar Jar Binks) regains his honor by driving a super Gungan battle wagon to defeat an uncomplicated ontological evil that lets the Republic veterans replay their war service and win this time, and where you never see an occupying allied Clone Trooper.
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May 5, 2024 17:59
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corusskant
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May 5, 2024 18:00
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So you think there's no comparison between fascist Japan and fascist Germany? It's completely apples and oranges?
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May 5, 2024 18:02
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I think you watched this movie in a weird rear end mood and took whatever was rolling around in your head to apply it to what you watched We’ve all done it
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May 5, 2024 18:04
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Mantis42 posted:Here's a thought experiment: imagine this same story set in Germany. Where there's no mention of the Holocaust or Naziism, where the biggest criticism of the Nazi regime is "they didn't give us enough armor", where the protagonist regains his honor by driving a super Panzer to defeat an uncomplicated ontological evil that lets the Wehrmacht veterans replay their war service and win this time, and where you never see an occupying allied soldier. okay this is turning into a pretty good troll. i needed a laugh today. excited to see where this goes
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May 5, 2024 18:06
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Gripweed posted:The movie doesn't show any occupying soldiers because it wants the misery of post-war Japan to be entirely the result of the actions of wartime Japan! It removes the idea of the misery being something done to them by a foreign power so it can solely be the fate they have brought on themselves. How are you trying to make that a bad thing? No I think you're reading it wrong. To the conservative nationalist Japanese the occupation was the most humiliating aspect. This film depicts Japan as defeated but still fundamentally sovereign, it's military still intact and autonomous. There should be American GIs on every corner in 1946. Their absence is weird and it says something.
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May 5, 2024 18:20
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Mantis42 posted:No I think you're reading it wrong. To the conservative nationalist Japanese the occupation was the most humiliating aspect. This film depicts Japan as defeated but still fundamentally sovereign, it's military still intact and autonomous. There should be American GIs on every corner in 1946. Their absence is weird and it says something. I think the most you could reasonably say was that the movie excludes the occupation so that the Japanese audience can take a simpler pride in the parable about the Japanese people choosing to live and rebuild after the war. The idea that it’s some kind of right wing attempt to erase the humiliation of the occupation only makes sense if you’re already reading the movie as hard right wing in the first place.
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May 5, 2024 18:49
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Mantis42 posted:where the biggest criticism of the Nazi regime is "they didn't give us enough armor", I'm begging you to watch the movie again if you think this has any relation to what actually happens in the film. The biggest criticism of the Japanese military is "they sent us all to certain deaths for no reason, and then vilified us if we didn't actually die." If you think that the main theme of the film is anything other than "living for a reason is better than dying for no reason", idk what to tell you other than to give it another go.
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May 5, 2024 18:49
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I tell you what: I'll track down the director's other film about a kamikaze pilot and see how I feel about it. And maybe I'll watch the Minus Color cut. It took me two viewings to fall in love with Shin, so we'll see.
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May 5, 2024 18:52
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Mantis42 posted:There should be American GIs on every corner in 1946. Their absence is weird and it says something. Godzilla ripped the poo poo out of the US Military during and following their nuclear tests so they abandoned Japan.
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May 5, 2024 19:01
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| # ? May 19, 2024 02:42 |
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Arc Hammer posted:Godzilla ripped the poo poo out of the US Military during and following their nuclear tests so they abandoned Japan. Wait, you mean this movie about a giant radioactive dinosaur attacking post-war Japan might be some sort of "alternate history"?
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May 5, 2024 19:13
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