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Fil5000 posted:Eh, if you've got receipts for lovely behaviour with everything dated and you're just saying "Hey, you don't get to have company poo poo when you're not working and you sure as gently caress doing get to be lovely to people when they tell you no" then I dunno if that counts as "retaliatory". Maybe America is different, but year old stuff would be ancient history here. Either it is pip worthy right now, or it isn't at all. Doing it year later directly after maternity leave instead smells like punishing for getting pregnant on bosses dime. No matter what official excuses are used.
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May 3, 2024 11:17
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But like... you can't do a PIP NOW because they've gone on maternity leave. However bad doing it immediately after the leave finishes, you sure as poo poo can't do it while they're on it.
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May 3, 2024 12:24
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Issaries posted:Maybe America is different, but year old stuff would be ancient history here. If someone in the US goes in any protected leave and you say their performance is bad WHILE they’re on the protected leave just go ahead and offer them two years of severance to resign cause boy that is a bad fact pattern.
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May 3, 2024 12:43
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If someone was heading out on mat leave, especially in America where they’re probably a couple days from labour, I’d probably afford them some grace and let it slide.
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May 3, 2024 13:02
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Kind of a rinky dink operation if you're taking peoples devices away during a one year leave with set return date, for cost control purposes. There's lots of reasons someone would want to have access to the company network during a parental leave.
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May 3, 2024 13:08
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seriously i would not put someone on a PIP for that immediately before they took maternity leave maybe just like settle down on going to war over the company's hardware budget. i agree that people don't need to have devices on extended leave but unless this is an explicit policy it's understandable that there is confusion around it.esquilax posted:Kind of a rinky dink operation if you're taking peoples devices away during a one year leave with set return date, for cost control purposes. generally when you are on parental leave you ought to be on leave and not doing work related poo poo. I think it's fine and probably good to take people's company devices and replace them on return for that reason. if its a cost control thing lol
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May 3, 2024 13:18
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I assumed it wasn't in America because I can't fathom a company here letting you take a 1 year leave
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May 3, 2024 13:21
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I think the issue isn’t the budget, it’s that she went over OPs head and made herself and by extension her boss look bad by ranting while wrong. That said, I agree to let it slide we need babies and working while pregnant sucks and babies steal pregnant ladies thoughts sometimes. It’s good you stopped her from making an even dumber decision, I’d say chat with her about the right way to do things but have a little empathy for pregnancy’s effect on people. Also like everyone said a pip, or any adverse employment action, when she’s not actively working or right after is a real bad idea in the US.
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May 3, 2024 13:25
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It sounds like she doesn't have a personal computer and was hoping to not have to buy one for the year she's off.CarForumPoster posted:babies steal pregnant ladies thoughts sometimes. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 13:32 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 13:26
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lol at “glad it’s in writing” while posting on a public forum that you plan to retaliate against someone going on parental leave
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May 3, 2024 13:27
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SpartanIvy posted:It sounds like she doesn't have a personal computer and was hoping to not have to buy one for the year she's off. no ones implying shes not of a sound mind you goober, it's just like generally a good practice to have a bit of empathy for people who may not be at their best due to intense non-work stress factors like if someones mom just died and they went on a kind of bizarre track like that i would be inclined to generally let it slide as well
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May 3, 2024 13:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:no ones implying shes not of a sound mind you goober, it's just like generally a good practice to have a bit of empathy for people who may not be at their best due to intense non-work stress factors I don't know what to tell you but I've worked with lots of people that have lost family and they still went to work and didn't try to steal company equipment. Myself included.
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May 3, 2024 13:43
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SpartanIvy posted:Women have their own agency and are responsible for their actions, just like anybody else. Implying pregnant women aren't of sound mind is a very dated take. Im literally quoting my doctor wife, so dismount the high horse. Pregnancy does cause changes in the brain and for many women that includes temporary changes that may limit their work or cause them to make decisions they might not make otherwise. IANAL but this seems to fit into the definition of a disability that’d be covered under the ADA. People with disabilities should have, and usually are entitled to, reasonable accommodations and a faux pas that averted consequences getting a talking to instead of a PIP seems well within that. It’s not about averting responsibility, it’s about Making reasonable accommodations that it could be argued OP is legally required to make. Those reasonable accommodations can still hold them responsible and IMO a talking to and retaining the laptop does do that.
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May 3, 2024 13:47
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SpartanIvy posted:I don't know what to tell you but I've worked with lots of people that have lost family and they still went to work and didn't try to steal company equipment. Myself included. uhhhhhh where are you getting the idea that this person is trying to steal company equipment
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May 3, 2024 13:49
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Lol glad I could take heat off OPKYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:uhhhhhh I'm just building a strawman like everyone else
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May 3, 2024 13:50
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Is there any harm in waiting until she's back and does another thing that would justify putting her on a pip before putting her on one instead of queueing it up a year in advance? Either she does something bad and earns the pip then, or she doesn't, and the year-old grudge doesn't matter anymore
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May 3, 2024 13:50
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Iirc Jumpsuit works for state government in Australia, and it's pretty common practice here to not allow employees on long term leave to have access to computer assets because it's a security risk. Trying to sneak one on your way out probably wouldn't get you pipped, but it would land protective security on your arse trying to get it back. Pregnancy can do a number on your brains, I say this as a former pregnant lady who had to resign from her work as a casual tutor because I literally lost the ability to do math. Not saying this happens to every pregnant human but it's not unreasonable to wonder if someone is exercising worse judgement than they usually would otherwise.
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May 3, 2024 14:01
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If it's a company policy to not allow mat leave personnel to hold onto corporate devices that's a different thing entirely (and sounds pretty sus to me), but at this point we're just making up excuses.
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May 3, 2024 14:13
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~Coxy posted:If it's a company policy to not allow mat leave personnel to hold onto corporate devices that's a different thing entirely (and sounds pretty sus to me), but at this point we're just making up excuses. What company of any reasonable size wouldn't have a policy like that in this environment? Firing up a device off-site that's potentially been offline for months is a recipe for security issues.
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May 3, 2024 14:16
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Ainsley McTree posted:Is there any harm in waiting until she's back and does another thing that would justify putting her on a pip before putting her on one instead of queueing it up a year in advance? Either she does something bad and earns the pip then, or she doesn't, and the year-old grudge doesn't matter anymore Yeah I figure this problem is going to solve itself when she's back one way or the other
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May 3, 2024 14:42
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Thread pull up FFS The person we interviewed yesterday was nice, enthusiastic, and significantly below the knowledge level that we were looking for. So now we are in the horrible situation of considering if we can get them to the level we need, the length of time that will take, the resources required, the hit this other people's productivity it would take etc. Also due to the level of experience we can't offer the headline rate, because that would upset the other people in the same role, but under offering means they might not accept anyway. However, they are significantly better than the other candidates* we have and is willing to comply with our not so great inflexible working policy. *None
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May 3, 2024 14:42
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You can teach people new skills and domain knowledge. You cannot teach people to be nice and enthusiastic and pleasant to work with.
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May 3, 2024 14:57
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CancerCakes posted:Thread pull up FFS Are we talking "unfamiliar with a particular software platform" or "lacks the fundamental skills necessary to even begin doing the job"?
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May 3, 2024 14:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You can teach people new skills and domain knowledge. You cannot teach people to be nice and enthusiastic and pleasant to work with. I agree for the most part but as someone who is now struggling with an employee who has issues learning to do basic tasks: test their capability for learning and critical thinking in the interviews before your company is stuck with a nice but incompetent employee.
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May 3, 2024 15:03
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SpartanIvy posted:I agree for the most part but as someone who is now struggling with an employee who has issues learning to do basic tasks: test their capability for learning and critical thinking in the interviews before your company is stuck with a nice but incompetent employee. I totally get where you're coming from but I've worked with so many people who are awful and incompetent that I'd still take nice and incompetent.
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May 3, 2024 15:05
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MDM should be locking the company equipment when you're on leave. If not, do you really want the petty tyrant it manager currently freaking out about a minor issue monitoring your netflix streams? The baseline corporate policy would be to have MDM but keeping the laptop connected to get free work out of you and keep you engaged; ownership culture etc. If there's no MDM: lol, lmao
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May 3, 2024 15:06
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SpartanIvy posted:I agree for the most part but as someone who is now struggling with an employee who has issues learning to do basic tasks: test their capability for learning and critical thinking in the interviews before your company is stuck with a nice but incompetent employee. For sure. "Nice" isn't really sufficient on its own.
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May 3, 2024 15:15
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:generally when you are on parental leave you ought to be on leave and not doing work related poo poo. I think it's fine and probably good to take people's company devices and replace them on return for that reason. if its a cost control thing lol I meant stuff like communicating with the leave team, checking benefits, employee handbook, w-2 and paycheck history, etc. Stuff that's relevant to employment but not actual work. That stuff is generally much easier through company email or an employee portal. OP was complaining about having a brand new laptop out and none for the replacement, so I have to assume it's a cost thing.
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May 3, 2024 15:18
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It’s weird to me to think of wanting to hang on to a company laptop for a year on leave but then I never ever put anything personal on a work laptop. Heck I have a completely isolated wifi network just for that when I’m at home. But I guess people who aren’t huge nerds with a bunch of personal computers and devices think it’s great having a free one. Super weird the company would put up a fight to keep it, as long as company information isn’t possibly compromised. If the lady is that much of a problem she’ll get herself on a PIP soon enough on return so no need to proactively put her on one imo. Maybe she felt bad about the freak out. Probably a stressful time.
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May 3, 2024 15:32
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CancerCakes posted:Thread pull up FFS Reduced salary plus guaranteed future raises and a signing bonus that needs to be repaid if they leave within X years? Also helps them bring them up to market comp to stop them jumping ship after you invest all the effort into training them.
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May 3, 2024 15:46
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priznat posted:It’s weird to me to think of wanting to hang on to a company laptop for a year on leave but then I never ever put anything personal on a work laptop. Heck I have a completely isolated wifi network just for that when I’m at home. This is one of those conflicts where it's hard to have any sympathy for either side. She tried to game the system to get a free new Macbook and threw a fit when she was told "no, you're not getting that." The company damaged its relationship with an employee and may have also incurred some risk of lawsuit over like $1,000 at most. Big ol' giant eyerolls all around here, way to go everybody.
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May 3, 2024 15:57
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Eric the Mauve posted:This is one of those conflicts where it's hard to have any sympathy for either side. She tried to game the system to get a free new Macbook and threw a fit when she was told "no, you're not getting that." The company damaged its relationship with an employee and may have also incurred some risk of lawsuit over like $1,000 at most. Big ol' giant eyerolls all around here, way to go everybody. That's corporate, baby!
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May 3, 2024 16:01
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Eric the Mauve posted:This is one of those conflicts where it's hard to have any sympathy for either side. She tried to game the system to get a free new Macbook We don't actually know this because the person saying this is what she did is also the person who was very proud of themself for collecting ammo to put a pregnant woman on a pip. I'm gonna go on a limb and say that someone who's pregnant and getting ready to give birth might have a lot more things on her mind than getting a work laptop updated "on time".
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May 3, 2024 16:06
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CancerCakes posted:The person we interviewed yesterday was nice, enthusiastic, and significantly below the knowledge level that we were looking for. If you think they are smart and have the horsepower, hiring them is probably the right move, and figuring out a token amount less is probably a good idea (honestly, even like $2k under what others make is usually enough to have everyone feel good about where they are slotted). If they don't have the intellectual horsepower, be very careful.
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May 3, 2024 16:13
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Let's put aside that this woman is pregnant. The fact that someone that's on their way out for a year cares at all about keeping their company laptop is suspicious as gently caress. If I could turn my laptop in when I take a week off I would do it, and I think everyone else here would too. Sending out angry emails to try and keep it? Insane. When I first read OPs post I jumped to the assumption that they must work in accounting and that this lady is embezzling and that she needs to keep covering her tracks while out. Might explain why they can't afford more laptops.
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May 3, 2024 16:47
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That seems like an overharsh assumption, but I admit that mine was that she expects more likely than not to end up not returning to that company and figures she might as well snag a nice new Macbook on the way out. They may well be able to remotely brick it anytime they choose, but she may not know that. None of that is necessarily a moral judgment on her, I hasten to add--companies "doing a reorg" right as someone's set to return from FMLA because they hired a replacement long ago is, sadly, far from rare, and also anyone in her position has my full approval if they use some of their time off to look for a higher paying job.
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May 3, 2024 16:56
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Eric the Mauve posted:That seems like an overharsh assumption, but I admit that mine was that she expects more likely than not to end up not returning to that company and figures she might as well snag a nice new Macbook on the way out. They may well be able to remotely brick it anytime they choose, but she may not know that. Yeah my assumption is in no way likely but when I hear someone so desperate to keep the ability to log in to work while not being expected or even allowed to, it makes me think there must be an equally desperate reason for them wanting to do so.
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May 3, 2024 17:04
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As someone who has seen maternity leave layoffs and firings plenty of times now, I’m more amazed that she’d even risk the potential of being seen as “performing work duties” during her leave.
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May 3, 2024 17:08
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lol at not cutting a pregnant woman any slack about being frustrated when laptop plans change, who cares, it's such a trivial gripe im putting those hot takes on a Posting Improvement Plan
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May 3, 2024 23:02
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Well the good part is that my posting can't get any worse
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May 3, 2024 23:26
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