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Mr. Humalong posted:If there's only one doctor claim then that would tell me there's two scum left and it's Pod and the doctor claim, tbh. But 4 scum out of 13 players would be quite the game. So let me get this straight, you think that GX, Xad, me, and a unknown scumbuddy: -Fakeclaimed cop D1 -killed a scumbuddy with no heat N1 -Voted out a scumbuddy D2 (because gently caress you all I had a part in that Xad vote, I could have pushed someone else and with how depressingly lurky it was it might have stuck) Is that accurate? Like gently caress dude I’m still thinking you’re newbie town going down a paranoia hole, but think it through.
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Jul 4, 2018 06:16
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Murmur Twin posted:I feel like there’s been plenty of time for someone to say “hey, I doctored these people and they survived so they’re probably town” or “I’m the person who did (some action) that killed gx”, and no one has claimed it yet. Doctor wouldn't out themselves unless absolutely needed. I don't think we have hit such a point yet? I'm not deffo saying we have a doctor, I just don't agree with what you said (if we did have one)
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Jul 4, 2018 06:35
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Podima posted:
This then suggests that scum were really unlucky with their night 1 kill, doesn't it? It's not impossible, but it's getting a bit 'stars aligning' that their night one target was protected in what seems to be a majority vanilla game.
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Jul 4, 2018 06:38
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wait i think i made a bad assumption on night 1. hang
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Jul 4, 2018 06:41
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I really don’t think it’s as unreasonable as you’re making it out to be that the claimed cop was protected on night 1.
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Jul 4, 2018 06:41
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yeah i completely forgot you claimed day 1, not day 2.
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Jul 4, 2018 06:45
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if there's a SK, why is there only one night kill, two nights running?
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Jul 4, 2018 06:47
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Beetphyxious posted:Doctor wouldn't out themselves unless absolutely needed. I don't think we have hit such a point yet? If I were a doctor idve absolutely claimed right now, because a lot of people think the claimed cop is scum right now and claiming would fix that while still putting scum in a really bad position (assuming they care about killing power roles, which apparently they don’t?). But let’s be real, if we had a cop and a doctor, then scum would almost certainly have a roleblocker and they would have targeted Pod last night (since they chose not to kill him).
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Jul 4, 2018 07:57
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Podima posted:-Voted out a scumbuddy D2 (because gently caress you all I had a part in that Xad vote, I could have pushed someone else and with how depressingly lurky it was it might have stuck) You did push other people (ANarc and Beet). Your vote on Xad was an “I agree with the points made on Xad” after the momentum was clearly there.
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Jul 4, 2018 08:07
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okay i'm interested in this fake cop claim theory, because it'll be brilliant if it's true, so i'm unpacking it. ( i started doing this as a quick take apart, however i got carried away.)Podima posted:So let me get this straight, you think that GX, Xad, me, and a unknown scumbuddy: while ballsy, scum could work out how likely a cop is in the game by whether or not they have a godfather role. so if they don't, once the fake claim is made (and isn't countered) it's easy to keep going because you know who isn't scum and every 'investigation' is buying you support for your argument. if there really is a SK and you say they are town, they're not gonna correct you if you 'clear' them. "but beet, what if it backfires and you get counter claimed?" well for this whole gambit to work, you need to commit to lose a player anyway. see next point. quote:
you make it sound like this is inconceivable. however, it's not a bad play for a scum team to make (as part of this gambit) especially because it lets them control the narrative of making the town think there is a SK. this is designed to have town trusting the word of the cop and put the cop above suspicion to ride home to a (hopefully) easy victory. this was setup early with your role claim turns results as town / not town. if the fake claim was countered and you got lynched, scum don't have to bus their own that night anymore, they've lost a player and lost their gambit, but to try this strategy they had committed to losing one anyway and i'd argue it's a play worth going for if they think there's no cop in the first place (if no godfather). the benefits of this gambit outweigh the risk i think. "but beet, how will everyone believe the cop survived claiming" read on! quote:-Voted out a scumbuddy D2 (because gently caress you all I had a part in that Xad vote, I could have pushed someone else and with how depressingly lurky it was it might have stuck)[/b] you were like, the second last vote. there were clearly no other people likely of being lynched and with the thread coming to a standstill, i don't think anything else would have happened unless you bussed your scum buddy. the thread and the vote was dragging on specifically because scum weren't voting on it! so you didn't get on this vote early, you were literally one of the last so being 'in' on the vote isn't a great defence. to flesh this theory out... xad would have played fake doc to your fake claim when you were pressed on it. however, in addition to the last paragraph, you would have been in a position of being the town cop and not getting in on a lynch of scum and that would have looked a bit odd. it would have looked especially odd because in later days you had no one to claim doc. so the lesser of two evils is jumping on to hammer your scumbro and hope you can play out the fake cop gambit because you jumped in on a lynch of a scum, and what scum would do that, right?! . (so just like you said above.) and with xad being so close to a lynch, there is no benefit in them trying to fake claim doc at that stage because if it did not turn the vote around onto someone else and xad ended up being lynched, when they flipped scum town would have come gunning for you next anyway, because a fake doc would only be there to protect a fake cop. so it's just better to keep your head down and suck up a second loss for the scum team. ~/~ what supports this theory: - only one night kill. if there is a doc protecting the cop, i am expected to believe that either the scum tried hitting the same protected target two nights running OR that the SK (if they exist) clearly tried targeting the cop on night 2 knowing full well that the scum kill was blocked night 1 (because only one kill and the obvious target was the cop) - and further to the above, that if the scum tried targeting the cop on the second night, they did so AGAIN instead of one of the confirmed townies when it would have been obvious to them that there is a doc at play and they don't know who it is, except that they're in the townie list somewhere, so start hitting town. - you were very eager to point out it was odd that i didn't immediately assume SK at the start of day 2, like it was inconceivable that it could have been anything else. was because you had a pre-constructed narrative you wanted town to follow? - your choice for investigations hasn't been ideal, especially last night. - no doc claim yet, though tbh i don't think they needed to claim until probably today - both scum flips have been vanilla scum. This adds to the argument of it being a vanilla game. - further to the above point, 2 out of (presumably) 3 scum and we lynched two vanilla scum. So either we've been unlucky and didn't get the godfather, or there isn't one. what doesn't support this theory: - all of the above hinges on scum not having a godfather and them deducing (and correctly) that this likely meant there is no cop, which, while this is only one little point in a big post it's actually quite critical.
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Jul 4, 2018 08:19
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Now someone will claim doc.
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Jul 4, 2018 08:22
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Podima posted:So let me get this straight, you think that GX, Xad, me, and a unknown scumbuddy: Beet answered this far better than I ever could, but I’d like to add that at the start of day 2 you tried to create a push on me. You only eventually voted Xad when the writing was on the wall.
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Jul 4, 2018 13:09
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Hey mr humbling am I scum?
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Jul 4, 2018 13:13
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Woke up to 65/100 gone, wow. I believe I am the last player to check in and I am vanilla. I know Pod says the doc would be within their rights to not claim, which is true that they have that right, but if there is a doc in this game that means they are choosing to sit by and let the cop die at this point when, with 9 alive, claiming to prevent the cop from being lynched + doc'ing the cop tonight means that even if scum came after the doc there would be a group of 4 out of 7 confirmed town left (cop + 3 clears) pending any godfather shenanigans, and/or the cop would catch someone. To me, it makes no sense to sit out at this point. So that combined with Pod's justification for Anarc means I don't believe the cop claim. Pod explained his Anarc cop as Podima posted:Ok but in seriousness I went between Gulag and Anarc, and decided I’d rather cop someone I had suspicions of versus someone who was just straight up not posting that day. Which is true that Anarc posted 2 times to Gulag's 0, but even including Anarc's 2 D3 posts at this point she has less posts than me. Especially when Pod is getting Town/Not Town results, wouldn't investigating Beet, his "I think they might be SK", make the most sense? It's possible a SK would have a godfather-like ability attached but I don't believe that's universal. And heck maybe Beet is just scum. Think it would have made way more sense to take a peek there. Not gonna vote, pod is at -2, no reason to rush it when we are already at ~30 posts left.
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Jul 4, 2018 13:47
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was 5k words through my omega post that i was charging up for all of yesterday last night to complete the joke but very bad thing happened today so im just going to trash it. sorry about the game ##vote gulag i shouldnt/don't want survive
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Jul 4, 2018 21:17
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GulagDolls posted:was 5k words through my omega post that i was charging up for all of yesterday last night to complete the joke im also evil
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Jul 4, 2018 21:30
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Game done gulag has poo poo going on he was godfather ok gg
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Jul 4, 2018 21:45
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Oh ok.
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Jul 4, 2018 21:47
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Sorry Gulag, hope things turn around.
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Jul 4, 2018 21:47
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im sorry feels bad because people were putting in too much effort i would have been ok doing the omegapost joke complete with soundtrack but it would have just felt too unfair trying to do what i could to sort of play when everyone else was trying really hard, after not posting for a game day
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Jul 4, 2018 21:49
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i dont feel as bad as i could though because we killed gx for no reason
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Jul 4, 2018 21:49
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Was podima really a cop
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Jul 4, 2018 21:51
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Yeah why did that happen? GX dying I mean.
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Jul 4, 2018 21:52
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I was actually a cop and I want personal apologies from each and every one of you that was lazily pushing me today. < >
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Jul 4, 2018 21:55
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Max posted:Yeah why did that happen? gx just really wanted to die
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Jul 4, 2018 21:56
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Kashuno posted:Game done gulag has poo poo going on he was godfather ok gg 
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Jul 4, 2018 22:05
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Podima posted:I was actually a cop and I want personal apologies from each and every one of you that was lazily pushing me today. < 
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Jul 4, 2018 22:05
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Yeah I hope everything is okay gulag.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:06
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##vote gulag I hope things improve 
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Jul 4, 2018 22:06
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What they said!
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Jul 4, 2018 22:07
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Oh lol I just re-read the thread hahaha I still think Pod is lying scum  
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Jul 4, 2018 22:08
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Podima posted:I was actually a cop and I want personal apologies from each and every one of you that was lazily pushing me today. < No.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:08
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This was an interesting experiment and I think it would have worked better with a post cap AND a deadline, but I'll probably run another game like this sometime. Good idea Kash and thanks for running it! Also: chaoslord posted:So that combined with Pod's justification for Anarc means I don't believe the cop claim. Pod explained his Anarc cop as I hate this kind of justification, e.g. "that's a terrible choice for your night action and you would never have done xyz as town" because it's so gosh darn impossible to defend against regardless of actual alignment and entirely ignores the human factor of mafia, so I vow to stop using it and urge others to do the same. Quote this post at me if I ever do it again and I will withdraw it consequence-free.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:11
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Also was there an actual strategic reason for killing GX on Night 1 or was it just blatant playing against wincons? Because that sucks if it's the latter, and I'd love to hear the logic behind it if the former.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:13
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my thoughts that were maybe the post cap should be dependent on amount of living players or something
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Jul 4, 2018 22:13
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Yeah post cap should decrease as people die to keep things moving. And I think the mafia killing mafia thing only worked entirely once in a game where it screwed with town's head so much they ignored obvious scum in favor of hunting for 3p or something, and so the scum won. I think Birb was the one that died on the scum team N1. I think that was the one time and now people are aware of it as a gambit and it just won't work anymore.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:15
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Having an equivalent of everyone having 5 or 10 posts per day would be interesting, because it'd still keep the idea that some people are "using up" other people's posts. It definitely does also need a deadline though since good townie people will stop posting to give others a chance and scum will be afraid to post and then nobody posts.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:16
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Max posted:Yeah post cap should decrease as people die to keep things moving. it was kind of going that direction. podima it never really made any sense but i said maybe one of us could just claim vig or something but then asiina said 'the only reason scum would do this would be so they could claim vig or something' so i backed out. i was planning to try to pull the lynch off of you and claim i had a 1-shot nexus or w/e bullshit but whateve.r
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Jul 4, 2018 22:17
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Also playing against wincon is very bad.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:17
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also i dont think anyone cared much about being optimal because of the farcical nature of the games structure
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Jul 4, 2018 22:19
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