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TBH a place where people on the way out will try penny pinch implies the culture is toxic as gently caress, so that's still a bullet dodged.
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May 15, 2024 03:34
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Fair enough, I never got any explanation and now never will (hiring manager left about a year ago as well). I felt moreso the HR person just couldn’t give a gently caress less about actually doing that part of their job, but who knows who made that call. It has its crappy points, but not bad enough to really be looking (plus it seems the market is turning, though that’s purely anecdotal for me).
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May 15, 2024 07:07
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nexus6 posted:Also, forgive me if I missed this when I read the OP, when/if asked "what was your last salary?" is there a reason I shouldn't just lie and say a figure higher than what I was actually paid? That way if we do argue down to it, it is still an amount that counts as a raise? Definitely dodge the question (or otherwise find a way to not give them an actual answer), but don't lie. I've had multiple jobs request my last pay stub as proof of my prior employment as part of the background check. I have no idea if they would actually check that stub against the salary you quoted them, but it's not worth the risk because that's something that places absolutely *will* yank an offer over (mostly because you lied to them, not because of the salary itself).
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May 15, 2024 20:08
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Chewbecca posted:When I negotiated a higher salary a few jobs ago based on my current salary, I was asked to provide proof in the form of a payslip or group certificate. I'd think carefully before lying about current salary. Isn't the way around this usually a A censored or redacted w-2 as proof of employment?
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May 17, 2024 00:24
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TheParadigm posted:Isn't the way around this usually a A censored or redacted w-2 as proof of employment? I'm in Australia so idk what these are, hth
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May 17, 2024 00:31
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Ah sorry. Take a paystub. Cover up the #'s they don't need to see. Its a legit proof of employment - and thus satisfies the inquiry - WITHOUT giving up information(that affects your pay). Just censor out the numbers. Tax witholdings, hours worked, etc. leave in the date range, when it was issued, that stuff. Easier if you get a pdf.
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May 17, 2024 00:51
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TheParadigm posted:Ah sorry. This is what I had to do for my last background check at my current org. I was told to black out all the salary info, plus the hiring company never saw the info, just the 3rd party bg check company verified it.
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May 17, 2024 02:17
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In china they point blank ask for last two months of your bank statements and proof of deposit of salary as a broken out line item.
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May 17, 2024 06:28
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thats why there's fewer non-ethnic-chinese immigrants to the entire country of china than immigrants to the usa who go to my whole foods
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May 17, 2024 14:36
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bob dobbs is dead posted:thats why there's fewer non-ethnic-chinese immigrants to the entire country of china than immigrants to the usa who go to my whole foods Was imagining the world's largest, busiest Whole Foods, but then looked up the actual numbers and  that's actually remarkably low.quote:In 2016, China issued 1,576 permanent residency cards. This was more than double what it had issued the previous year, but still roughly 750 times lower than the United States’ 1.2 million at the time.[3] By 2017, the number of foreigners holding Chinese Permanent Residence finally passed the 10,000 mark. Sundae fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 17, 2024 |
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May 17, 2024 19:55
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Is it safe to say they “don’t take kindly to your type around these parts”?
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May 17, 2024 20:17
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I think it's more that people just cannot be hosed dealing with China for very long. I've known a few people who lived there for a year or two and they say they miss the food but otherwise are happy to be done with the place.
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May 17, 2024 20:23
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no i mean a lot of Chinese people are also insanely racist
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May 17, 2024 20:25
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TBF "gently caress off, we're full" is a little more believable when China says it
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May 17, 2024 20:30
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Funnily enough that isn't the only terrible problem encountered, to the point where the Jewish guy I know who spent three years over there didn't even bother to mention it.
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May 17, 2024 21:02
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I'm 50/50 so I think the kind of racism I experience in China is uh, specific in some ways. I could never see myself living there long term but I'd rather live there than Riyadh.
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May 17, 2024 21:30
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Ah, yeah, that's something I've heard from second generation immigrants to Ireland back in my college days. Their parents were very insistent on who was an appropriate partner.
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May 18, 2024 00:31
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I applied for a job that I doubt I would take. I put "1" in the desired salary box. Got an email saying they need a number. I kinda want to interview but again very low chance I would take the job (I am happy where I am, zero chance they will hit a number that will tip the scale for me). Do I just say what I believe is the top of their range? Middle? I guess I should say if there was a way to get more time off or something that could be relevant, but I doubt saying a number has any impact there Epitope fucked around with this message at 21:37 on May 20, 2024 |
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May 20, 2024 21:30
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Epitope posted:I applied for a job that I doubt I would take. I put "1" in the desired salary box. Got an email saying they need a number. I kinda want to interview but again very low chance I would take the job (I am happy where I am, zero chance they will hit a number that will tip the scale for me). Do I just say what I believe is the top of their range? Middle? 9999999999999 Or if you want to play the game, anchor high. The best anchor is like 10% over what the theoretical max is. You can hedge it a bit by saying "Salary requirement will depend on fit and other benefits", which is actually loving true anyway so I don't mind suggesting it. If you wanna be a little catty you can say "I am happy to talk to you about the position but I don't want to discuss salary until we're further along" which is also reasonable.
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May 20, 2024 21:38
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Put a number that you would accept? Why did you apply?
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May 20, 2024 21:39
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TheWevel posted:Put a number that you would accept? I want to interview, mainly. But it's not totally out of the question I would consider an offer. There are not many positions that fit my skill set locally. I'm happy where I am but bored at times. But again, I'd rather get an interview than do optimal negotiation. "9999999999999" seems like it would have lower odds of me getting an interview than a real number, since I already tried "1"
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May 20, 2024 21:46
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If your goal is to just get an interview, then I'd probably target within their range, maybe around the top 30th percentile or so. If your goal is to see if they give you the "gently caress, I'll do anything for that much" number, you want to pin as close to the top of the range as you can with a straight face.
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May 20, 2024 21:51
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If they refuse to interview you unless you name your number first, you don't want to work there. If you want to troll them for interview practice name whatever number and have fun. Probably better to just move on though.
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May 20, 2024 21:52
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Eric the Mauve posted:If they refuse to interview you unless you name your number first, you don't want to work there. If you want to troll them for interview practice name whatever number and have fun. Probably better to just move on though. I believe you are reading them well. I suspect this job would be very stressful (which I don't want) and I would have to deal with suits in a different state (which I don't want, but could be ~good experience~ I suppose). Thanks guys
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May 20, 2024 21:58
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Lockback posted:Or if you want to play the game, anchor high. The best anchor is like 10% over what the theoretical max is. You can hedge it a bit by saying "Salary requirement will depend on fit and other benefits", which is actually loving true anyway so I don't mind suggesting it. I will provide anecdotal evidence that this can work pretty well. I was in a similar situation a few years ago, and wasn't super interested in job-hopping but applying anyway. I gave them a salary that was about 10% over their glassdoor top-range for the position, and when they asked me if I could come down on it I said "no." I figured that'd be the end of it, but they actually made the offer, and in negotiation I got them to bump me by 5 vacation days as well. I really didn't want to take the job but I did. Looking back, it was idiotic that I was so cagey about this job. The job I was leaving was terrible by comparison and this one kinda rocks.
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May 20, 2024 22:40
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Eric the Mauve posted:Probably better to just move on though. What, and let them win?!?
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May 21, 2024 01:23
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I have an internal promotion that I’m struggling to find the best approach to. Background: I’m a PhD scientist at a climate adaptation NGO that runs more similarly to a hybrid engineering consultancy and research group (about 100 people, 20 million a year in revenue). I’ve been there 3 years and was promoted last year to 100k/yr. I bring in roughly 1-3 million a year in grants and contracts in addition to technical delivery and internal strategy. I was offered another promotion this month to the next level for a 20k bump, but my role and current duties remain constant but in addition I will have to become a front line supervisor for other scientists and techs. My problem is that others currently in this grade are at 120-190k, with no supervisory, client management, or business development expectations. I’m unclear how to best make the case or weigh 1) advocating for a mid-range salary especially with the management duties, and 2) negotiating a higher title (like associate director) to reflect my new leadership role and position myself for the next opportunity. My supervisor in the past has been dismissive of my low pay relative to others in my grade with excuses of “that’s what they made before” or that I should care more about our impact and NGO mission. I’m worried that the veterans tax is insurmountable but want to make the most of this recent rapid promotion to advocate strongly.
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May 22, 2024 00:56
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Find another job it's not going to get better here. Your current manager made that very clear
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May 22, 2024 01:07
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Yeah, ask for what you want, accept what you are given, and then use that new title to find better elsewhere.
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May 22, 2024 01:40
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Arquinsiel posted:Yeah, ask for what you want, accept what you are given, and then use that new title to find better elsewhere.
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May 22, 2024 02:22
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If you are unwilling to walk away when your manager says no you’re asking, not negotiating.
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May 22, 2024 07:59
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Sundae posted:Was imagining the world's largest, busiest Whole Foods, but then looked up the actual numbers and One of my colleagues just got one of these, which is a level of commitment to the country that goes beyond mine. Apparently it lasts 10 years and is invalidated if in any year he spends <3 months in China. In my experience as a long term foreign resident here, there is a glass ceiling for us in private sector corporates but it’s pretty high (like, director but probably not VP/SVP) if you are good enough at your core job, don’t piss people off / throw your weight around, speak decent Mandarin and can read & write. The stereotype Chinese generally have of foreigners is that we’re lazy, entitled and not that smart, so it also helps if you can do some performative overwork in the first few months while people are getting to know you. This is annoying and wasteful, but it pays off when people actually treat you like a colleague instead of a grifter who has lucked into a role above their natural talents (if only they knew). I’m being posted back to a western country soon and it’s going to be weird learning a new set of office social codes.
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May 22, 2024 08:14
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:What, and let them win?!? I know this is tongue in cheek, but the game they are playing is "Only hire people stupid enough to bend over when we tell them to." In this case, it is very advisable to let them win at their game before you are bent over.
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May 22, 2024 14:31
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mountainwalrus posted:Background: I’m a PhD scientist at a climate adaptation NGO As someone who has a somewhat similar background, I can say my experience was that "the mission" is always the excuse management uses to suppress salaries and heap more and more unpaid work onto the managed, and it's just brainwashing bullshit. They act like it's a goddamned honor to be working there in the first place and demanding compensation is an insult. I walked away from that culture a few years ago and immediately got a $30K/yr salary increase at my next job. The workload is much lower because I'm not expected to do large portions of my regular job off-clock and I'm not expected to just take on more and more responsibilities as some kind of offering to The Mission.
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May 22, 2024 16:05
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Serious_Cyclone posted:As someone who has a somewhat similar background, I can say my experience was that "the mission" is always the excuse management uses to suppress salaries and heap more and more unpaid work onto the managed, and it's just brainwashing bullshit. They act like it's a goddamned honor to be working there in the first place and demanding compensation is an insult. I walked away from that culture a few years ago and immediately got a $30K/yr salary increase at my next job. The workload is much lower because I'm not expected to do large portions of my regular job off-clock and I'm not expected to just take on more and more responsibilities as some kind of offering to The Mission. nonprofits.txt
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May 22, 2024 16:29
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TheWevel posted:Put a number that you would accept? *Out of Breath* *Skipped past literally the whole thread* *Posts* "Put a number that you would accept." *Feels cool posting about provably bad input that has been advised against* The Sean fucked around with this message at 16:52 on May 22, 2024 |
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May 22, 2024 16:40
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Or he read what I said and is saying that putting a number significantly above the top of their range is no worse than 9999999, which I think is in line with thread wisdomDwight Eisenhower posted:I know this is tongue in cheek, but the game they are playing is "Only hire people stupid enough to bend over when we tell them to." It's a small market up here so whether I play or not they're gonna affect me. I suppose I could just ask for an informational interview, but this seems like a reasonable way to meet them
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May 22, 2024 17:42
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